Question for the Guys

[Maria]

I just have to wonder.... Have any of you guys ever had a girlfriend or partner who LIKES desperation?

You see, I could never get the point of having a painful bladder situation. When faced with that sort of thing, I go in my pants. I always thought that desperation was the fetish for men who dislike women and prefer to see them in a state of pain, suffering, and humiliation. I usually ignore posts based on desperation because I always thought of it as a form of misogyny, dislike of women.

But are there any women who really LIKE it?

I have never met one, but as you can well imagine, my message box here is often full of stories from various guys who want to get to know me. There is one fellow, I shall him Steve, with whom I have shared many e-mails. He is in his early 30s, but lately got the courage to ask an older (mid-40s) woman out on a date. They went to an outdoor rock concert, a band more from her generation than his. She kept complaining that her bladder was bursting and she really had to pee. When they left the concert, she was nearly running, holding her crotch in such a way that other people might actually have noticed, and so on. At last she cried out that she couldn't hold it anymore, and asked him to guard her while she squatted and peed between two cars in the parking lot.

When he got her home he fucked her lights out. She said, "I guess you enjoyed my little stunt." He admitted that it was super hot and she said she had been enjoying that sort of thing for about a decade. As a Registered Nurse, she had seen all kinds of people in hospitals have all kinds of reactions to urination, sometimes blatantly erotic -- nothing like a lot of AMA dope to remove your inhibitions. So she got interested in water sports.

I can't tell what she likes best -- the actual feeling of desperation, or the naughty peeing, popping a squat where some stranger might actually catch a nice glimpse of her. (She admitted to Steve that there were a few times when guys had caught a real "hot" look at her, and that this was a big turn-on for her.)

He asked if she had ever lost the desperation battle and wet her pants and she just laughed and told him it had happened a few times. He said that would be the biggest turn-on for him. She just laughed and said that if they kept dating he was bound to get lucky eventually.

I have always known Steve to be an honest guy in his messages to me, but is it actually possible for a woman to LIKE desperation? Has anyone ever met a woman like that?

[lhansen]

Never known Anyone.

I'm guessing, because there might be more, but I've known probably a dozen women who for various reasons have wet their pants. That number does not include the women who hung out at my local beach while I was growing up.

Maybe I just never noticed, but I never knew any that were into it just for the desperation aspect. I knew some that held it for a long time but I didn't notice it being any kind of a sexual thing for me or them. In fact if a girl I was with needed a bathroom, I'd go out of my way to find one for her. Of course afterwards I'd try to find out if she got any in her panties.

The women that simply made me crazy were the ones that didn't really say much but would simply go in their pants. No jumping around, no tears, just casually wet their pants and wonder what effect it had on me or those around me almost as though they knew. Some knew, believe me. They were the ones that made it into my stories. Hot girls they were.

[PP1]

While my partners have tended to fall into two categories--those who wet their pants to please me and those who wet their pants to please themselves and, vicariously, me--only one of them got aroused by filling her bladder to the point that it bulged over her panties.

She said the relief as she peed, whether in the toilet or in her clothing was orgasmic. I never insisted that she hold to the point of putting herself in great pain, and obviously I don't know what level she felt when holding. Whether it was excruciating like a dentist drilling without Novocain or mildly painful like stubbing your toe, only she knew.

However, within the wide realm of sexual turn-ons, I bet there are women who like the pain of an overfull bladder just as we know from some stories and video clips that there are men who like to make women suffer that pain by forcing them to drink a lot of fluid while prohibiting them from peeing.

[quietpr11]

I think it's important to offer a few clarifications here, Maria. Your question is in fact an important one and I can certainly understand how you could wonder about such things.

1) Most people I've met/talked to who liked desperation (and not wetting) liked it for one of a few reasons. It may have been because it caused the women who were desperate to do suggestive things like hold their crotch, get flushed red, breathe raggedly etc. Some are aroused by intimacy - i.e. seeing an aspect of a woman's life that she normally doesn't want seen. Still others like that it makes them think about the woman peeing a lot (not just a normal amount, but a deluge). Most never mention expressly enjoying the thought of a woman in agony.

2) However, most people I know who like desperation like it to end in an accidental or intentional wetting. They like it for some or all of the reasons above, but mostly...the anticipation of watching to see whether it will end with what they're really after (the wetting) is very exciting. It's about the candid struggle for control leading (they hope) to a loss of that control with all of the raw, unfiltered consequences of that loss of control.

3) Not once in all of my time talking to men and women who like female desperation did I meet someone who liked it expressly because it made the women suffer agony, though I am certain those folks do exist, just as people who like to inflict pain during sex exist (on both sides of the gender divide)...seriously, check out the discussion in S&M groups if you want to see lots of people who conflate pain and pleasure for whatever reason. I would guess that for the great majority who like inflicting pain, it is not about making the sufferer inferior to them but about pushing some boundary or testing a person's limits. I think you can go too far looking for misogyny (the express disregard/disrespect for women) where there is only another form of antisocial behavior or another brand of mental confusion (between pain and pleasure).

4) Yes, I have in fact known at least a half a dozen different women who really did like to hold their pee until they were very desperate (to the point of pain, though I don't know how much pain it was). There was a very active poster over at peesearch.net going by the screenname anonymousy who was particularly into it and described her reasons in great detail in public threads and in chats. She wasn't even necessarily about the wetting part as much, though she did enjoy that sometimes. She was one of the folks out there who mixed pain and pleasure in her mind and liked a challenge. Most of the girls I've talked to who enjoyed holding for a long time had some background story that explained it (a desire to overcome childhood difficulties with accidents or to demonstrate control after being picked on as kids or strict parents who they rebelled against by learning to love to hold it, rather than find it a burden, etc) and most liked it because when they did pee, the relief was a tremendous rush or because while holding it, they could feel the pee burning at the edge of escape and it was pleasurable to them.

5) You might be interested to know that many women who aren't really into watersports have started making public note of the fact that when they have sex with a full bladder, their orgasms are more intense. When you have to pee, the same tissues that feature your G-Spot swell a bit and become more sensitive. There may be some women who find the need to pee a very effective way to become aroused because they get "tingly" feelings in that most orgasmic of nether-regions. In fact, I briefly met and spoke with a woman from France some ten years ago who reported that very sensation to me as the main reason that she liked to hold it until she lost control and wet herself.

Food for thought...I think you're not completely incorrect...I think there are some guys out there who like the desperation thing on some level because they like to see women as vulnerable and painful desperation certainly makes a person vulnerable. But even those guys aren't thinking that they want the girl to suffer...they're usually focused on the vulnerability...which isn't necessarily a statement of misogyny or malice, even if it can be misdirected toward less-than-charitable behaviors and fantasies. But it's definitely more complicated than you've thus far imagined.

I, myself, enjoy desperation only when the desperate woman seems to enjoy being desperate and only if it leads to an enjoyable wetting or great full-bladder sex (and a golden shower to top it off, perhaps!). But urophilia is a broad umbrella encompassing many different tastes - some completely innocuous, some patently illegal (for a reason). Be careful before assuming that everyone who likes what you do not does so for all the wrong reasons.

[wetfan]

I think these things are more complicated than being able to neatly categorize and label (just like everything in life). Nor do I believe our emotional side is always logical.

For example I love desperation and wetting. My ultimate fantasy is to have both together, however I can enjoy desperation without wetting but don't often enjoy wetting with no desperation.

However I'm also an empathetic kinda guy and don't like people who are in pain. So these two things seem to conflict. However that doesn't change how I'm wired up or the things that "do it for me". The best scenario would be to be involved with someone who likes to get desperate so I can enjoy that without any of the guilt.

Do such women exist? Absolutely they do. Just because you haven't met one doesn't mean they don't. I haven't met the Queen of England but I know she exists. This world is simply too large and varied for there not to be women into desperation at all. Statistically the odds are against you if you bet they don't.

I've been on the web for years now and I've seen the wetting community grow ten fold in that time. I have read stories and heard from women who absolutely love getting desperate. In fact, lately for me, it's felt like I've come across more that like just desperation than those that enjoy desperation with wetting.

I have to admit Maria, I'm surprised that you're surprised women could like it. And that the only reason men would want a woman to be desperate would be for some negative hurtful reason. Mind you I haven't read all your posts on here so I can hardly claim to "know" you but I kinda felt you were more open minded about such things. I thought maybe you had been "around" (in the online wet community) for longer and come across them. Experience Project has tonnes. <--- that probably came across harsher than I meant it too. It was more a general comment than anything accusatory. =)

[watchyougo]

I never have had an SO that enjoyed it, but I think that there are women who enjoy it. After all, I enjoy making myself desperate until I really have to work to hold it and then making myself wet. The fact that I enjoy it tells me that there are probably others who feel the same way. Honestly, the urge to pee feels, to me, very similar to the build-up to orgasm, and the release feels almost as good as an orgasm. I think the thought of that, combined with a desire for extreme intimacy are what make me attracted to desperate women.

Was that enough self-psychoanalysis for you all?

[Omo Rashi]

I just have to wonder.... Have any of you guys ever had a girlfriend or partner who LIKES desperation?

Girlfriend or partner - no, but exchanged mails with girls from Experience Project who say exactly that! I know one has to be careful on EP as there are tons of fakes. But sometimes you can sense it when somebody is ok: No attempt is made to make it "spicy", typical obscene language and any exaggeration is absolutely avoided, every effort is made to reflect about a question one has sent. Girls who seem to be "normal", no phantasms... (Even this could then be an - intelligent - fake, but you can't have more without giving up anonymity.) Anyway, girls on EP have told me that they love to wait until the last second WITHOUT any interest of wetting their pants. On the contrary, two girls said they actually never wet themselves, just know exactly when they finally must really go to keep their pants dry. They just like desperation and don't know why!

You see, I could never get the point of having a painful bladder situation. When faced with that sort of thing, I go in my pants.

Of course guys want to date you...
I wish there were more like you!!

I always thought that desperation was the fetish for men who dislike women and prefer to see them in a state of pain, suffering, and humiliation. I usually ignore posts based on desperation because I always thought of it as a form of misogyny, dislike of women.

No, no, no!!! How disappointing to read this... It is not at all like that. The idea that she is suffering and feels humiliated for real is NOT a turn-on for me. It is the opposite! I always hope she secretly enjoys it when I happen to see a desperate woman. However, I know I can hardly expect it. In particular, in public. The best fantasy for me is a woman who purposely waits until it is too late, a woman who chooses to have an accident (which then is genuine in the end), a woman who prefers staying where she is instead of looking for a toilet, although she clearly feels her need to pee become gradually literally irresistable...

I have never met one, but as you can well imagine, my message box here is often full of stories from various guys who want to get to know me. There is one fellow, I shall him Steve, with whom I have shared many e-mails. He is in his early 30s, but lately got the courage to ask an older (mid-40s) woman out on a date. They went to an outdoor rock concert, a band more from her generation than his. She kept complaining that her bladder was bursting and she really had to pee. When they left the concert, she was nearly running, holding her crotch in such a way that other people might actually have noticed, and so on. At last she cried out that she couldn't hold it anymore, and asked him to guard her while she squatted and peed between two cars in the parking lot.

When he got her home he fucked her lights out. She said, "I guess you enjoyed my little stunt." He admitted that it was super hot and she said she had been enjoying that sort of thing for about a decade. As a Registered Nurse, she had seen all kinds of people in hospitals have all kinds of reactions to urination, sometimes blatantly erotic -- nothing like a lot of AMA dope to remove your inhibitions. So she got interested in water sports.

I can't tell what she likes best -- the actual feeling of desperation, or the naughty peeing, popping a squat where some stranger might actually catch a nice glimpse of her. (She admitted to Steve that there were a few times when guys had caught a real "hot" look at her, and that this was a big turn-on for her.)

He asked if she had ever lost the desperation battle and wet her pants and she just laughed and told him it had happened a few times. He said that would be the biggest turn-on for him. She just laughed and said that if they kept dating he was bound to get lucky eventually.

What a hot account... Isn't he lucky!

[DeltaFoxtrot]

My wife doesn't do the desperation thing much... in fact she prefers her bladder to be completely empty, thus the diapers 24/7.

[Maria]

First of all, let me say that I did not mean to characterize ALL fans of desperation as misogynists who want to see women in pain. I realize that this would be a dramatic over-simplification, and I thank my critics for being so courteous in their objections.

My most recent communications with my “young friend” have convinced me that it’s not actually the feeling of a full bladder that provides erotic stimulus to his female companion. I think it is something quite different.

He mentions that he went to lunch with her the other day. As their relationship is still fairly new, this was the first time he had seen her at her place of work. He was rather shocked by her see-through hospital scrubs, and admits that he was a bit embarrassed to be seen at a restaurant with her.

As a medical receptionist, I have known more nurses than I can possibly remember. We’ve all seen the ones in the see-through scrubs. These women really are exhibitionists – I can vouch for that much. I am not clear as to why exhibitionism is more easily tolerated in that profession than in others, but this really does seem to be the case. As I said, my correspondent is at least ten years younger than she is, and we live in such conservative sexual times (at least in contrast to my youth) that I am not surprised that he was shocked and embarrassed by an openly sexual woman. He’s probably never seen one before.

But I digress.... I think she gets off on rushing through the parking lot holding her crotch because it’s an act of exhibitionism. And yes, she asks her friend to “stand guard” while she squats and pees in totally inappropriate places, but there is always the chance that someone may walk by that tree or those cars on another, “unguarded” side and catch a glimpse of her as she urinates, which she admits has happened. I think this is what really gets her off. She pretty much admitted as much, so once again it suggests that her “naughty peeing” is an act of exhibitionism. When my friend asked her if she had ever “lost the desperation battle” and wet her pants, she admitted that it had happened. But she was smiling about it and she encouraged him to stay hopeful, so I am guessing that a public accident is yet another form of exhibitionism for her.

It’s just that she’s not really “up for it” unless she is genuinely ready to burst.

This seems more likely to me than the idea that she enjoys a painfully full bladder. I am not surprised that some of you say you have never met a woman who likes desperation. I am not hugely clear on why anyone would enjoy such intense, unpleasant pressure (though I am sensitive to the reply which mentioned pain and eroticism as the very essence of bdsm, which is perfectly true). But any sociology book will tell you that exhibitionism is one of the most common sexual fantasies among women, and I would not be at all surprised if the “naughty peeing” and even the occasional public accidents were a form of sexual exhibitionism, since I am more or less in the same category – trying hard not to be seen if I wet my pants in public but thrilled out of my silly head when someone actually does see me.

What do you think?

[Omo Rashi]

wet exhibitionism

This form of exhibitionism is a huge turn on for me. Thank you for describing it. Thinking about your words, it is much more this than a real accident which arouses me. The planned risk of being watched while the need to pee has reached a stage where she cannot hide it any longer, or of being watched in the moment when she gives up the struggle and starts peeing her pants...
It is not a common thought for me that it might be one of the many aspects of exhibitionism to build up intentionally to such a state. But it is perfectly clear.
I remember an account of a woman (30's) who said she would get on a bus in the moment when she knows she is about to lose it, seeking to be unable to escape in the moment when she cannot hold it in any longer. You name it: exhibitionism. It is not just the feeling of the loss of bladder control, it is important that it happens in public where it will be noticed inevitably.
Ultra-hot.

[Maria]

I remember an account of a woman (30's) who said she would get on a bus in the moment when she knows she is about to lose it, seeking to be unable to escape in the moment when she cannot hold it in any longer. You name it: exhibitionism. It is not just the feeling of the loss of bladder control, it is important that it happens in public where it will be noticed inevitably.

I totally agree and can understand where your female friend is coming from. It's one thing to sit on your couch all by yourself and pee in your pants while watching your favorite hunk on DVD, but quite another thing to do it in public.

Beginning from the time I was 27 and ending when I was about 46, I wet my pants in public 5 times as a deliberate act of sexual exhibitionism. I don't know if your friend in her 30s was alone or with a male companion. I was always with a male companion, because in my life (I am 53) I have encountered several guys who get a stiff one when grown women wet their pants. Those few times I mystically surrendered myself in public, the guy always went nuts, just completely out of his mind with lust.

So yeah, you haven't REALLY wet your pants till you've done it in public. There is absolutely nothing in the world quite like it.

[Omo Rashi]

I don't know if your friend in her 30s was alone or with a male companion.

Always with a male companion!

I have encountered several guys who get a stiff one when grown women wet their pants. Those few times I mystically surrendered myself in public, the guy always went nuts, just completely out of his mind with lust.

Your words would describe me if I were the lucky one. Believe me: What you did was the absolute summit for him.

[toiletcontroller]

Just to add a slightly different spin on this, as a male dominant for me it is more about control, to see a submissive hand over control of such a basic bodily function at the risk of completely humiliating herself, holding herself, crossing her legs, squirming as she struggles to hold it whilst performing tasks I may give her is something more than just a sexual thing. Also there is an element of daddy dom in there so to see her wetting hereself like a naughty girl is an added bonus (please note this does not mean I am a pervert interested in real girls, this is an adult role play scenario!)

[Maria]

Hi, toiletcontroller. Actually, I think of Doms as being in a whole different category than the average desperation fan.

As I hope I made clear by now, I do not perceive all desperation fans as misogynists, though most of the mean comments I read about women do come from the desperation guys.

When I separated from my husband and began living alone, I decided that I would take the “life begins at 40” road and start exploring my sexuality. I hung out with several local bdsm groups (I was in L.A. at the time, so there was a wide variety of choice). I know that many people associate bdsm with cruelty and pain, but I had a very positive experience. No one pressured me about whether I was a domme or a sub (FYI, I’m technically a switch). I just said that I had come to “explore my erotic nature” and everyone was fine with that.

Far from being cruel, I found Doms to be more courteous to their girls than the average guy from ordinary “vanilla” society. Before two people get involved, there is always a discussion about “hard limits.” No one crosses your personal boundaries or hard limits. If a woman says that water sports are one of her hard limits, no respectable Dom would put pressure on her about it.

Actually, quite a few women would have said that water sports were among their hard limits, so the guys who liked ws were always really happy to find me. I had a lot of fun times. As I mentioned, I have wet my pants in public five times as an adult, and three of those times were in the context of bdsm friends. I am your ultimate “wet date”!!!

You can always spot a Dom who’s a troublemaker because he’s the one who doesn’t believe in safe calls. In general, a sub only gets tied up because she wants to be. By the same token, if some Dom pulls a power play and asks his sub to wet her pants in Home Depot, it’s because she already made it clear that ws is not one of her hard limits.

I found age play (inc. diapers) to be pretty common, but as toiletcontroller points out, this has absolutely nothing to do with children but is a game which is consciously played for enjoyment by consenting adults.

So good on them.

[PP1]

The key word is obviously "consent." Guys who are brutal toward women, be it physical or psychological, are generally brutal outside the context of sexuality. Those who role play as doms for erotic pleasure are exercising control over smeone who enjoys being controlled.

While it's not my cup of tea, it's easy enough to imagine the thrill each partner derives from such activity simply by reflecting on my own reaction when my partner pees her pants for her own pleasure.