Nikki, Paul & Wetting Wonderland

[Peevert]

I'm pleased to see that someone was actually arrested for this, it is a form of sexual abuse.

Was someone actually saying that people lie so often on the internet, that we should accept it as okay? That's kind of like saying that women get raped so often, we should accept it as okay.

[Drying]

I'm pleased to see that someone was actually arrested for this, it is a form of sexual abuse.

I don't see that written anywhere.
Wet Trousers is just saying that a transsexual who raped a person was convicted of rape.

Was someone actually saying that people lie so often on the internet, that we should accept it as okay? That's kind of like saying that women get raped so often, we should accept it as okay.

Please do not twist my words >_>
I'm not saying it is okay to lie on the internet (though I believe it is completely harmless as the relative anonymity of the source removes any and all credibility anyway).
I'm just saying that you should not expect anyone to be open and honest on the internet.

The point that you are missing, Drying, is that if person A cons or forces person B into sexual activity that is non-consensual were the full facts known, they are sexually abusing or raping them.

Well I'm not missing the point. I just think you're not defending it very well.
Actually, reading it like this, I think you phrased it a bit weirdly.
Forcing someone into sexual activity of course happens only when it is non-consensual and thus is rape.
When person A engages in sexual activity with person B that would be non-consensual if the full facts are known, and person A is not aware of this, I would definitely not classify this as rape.
Conning someone into a sexual activity, knowing full well that it would be non-consensual if some of the facts were not withheld, that is the situation that is under discussion I would think.

And I think that's fair. I would be a bit more specific on the nature of the activity. As long as it's over the internet, I wouldn't call it anything serious. If you visit porn websites, you see surprise dick in advertisements all the time.
I would definitely not classify this with paedophiles raping children, but in real life I can definitely imagine situations where you might call this kind of thing rape.

[Wet Trousers]

I don't see that written anywhere.

In order to be convicted, you must be arrested and charged under UK law, even if only when you come to court and surrender to the dock officer. Therefore Peevert's statement is correct.

When person A engages in sexual activity with person B that would be non-consensual if the full facts are known, and person A is not aware of this, I would definitely not classify this as rape.

I am glad to say, in the UK, we are protected from the kind of abuse that you seem to think is ok and it is rape. Person A has a duty of care to person B to obtain fully informed consent before sexual activity. Omitting relevant facts does not achieve this. Neither does having sex with someone too drunk to understand.

As long as it's over the internet, I wouldn't call it anything serious.

If someone is caught doing something with a minor over the Internet, they will still be jailed for paedophilia, so that argument cannot be right in general.

Agreed that conning Peevert is less serious than this (sorry Peevert!), but it is still wrong, which is what he was saying. Also agreed that lying on the Internet is common, but that does not make it right. If associated with sexual activity, it becomes more serious and is additionally sexual abuse. Shoplifting is common. It's still illegal.

[Drying]

In order to be convicted, you must be arrested and charged under UK law, even if only when you come to court and surrender to the dock officer. Therefore Peevert's statement is correct.

You did not understand what I meant. He's jailed for rape, but it wasn't said that they were lying about their birth sex.

I am glad to say, in the UK, we are protected from the kind of abuse that you seem to think is ok and it is rape. Person A has a duty of care to person B to obtain fully informed consent before sexual activity. Omitting relevant facts does not achieve this. Neither does having sex with someone too drunk to understand.

This time it's me who isn't clear I'm afraid (wasn't lying about my bad English :P) what I meant was that person B is not aware that one of the withheld facts may be a problem. Transsexuality does not fit this case.

If someone is caught doing something with a minor over the Internet, they will still be jailed for paedophilia, so that argument cannot be right in general.

They won't be jailed for paedophilia. They will (hopefully) be jailed for child sexual abuse. Other than that, I do have to agree with you.

I think the main problem here is the term rape. For me, this is a very serious and loaded term. After looking it up (just now), it turns out I was right.
Rape is a term used for a physical sexual act (such as penetration) on someone else. This type of "con" over the internet should therefore not be considered rape. It is, however, a form of sexual abuse. I completely agree about that and I understand that the severity may be different for each person and each situation.

Also agreed that lying on the Internet is common, but that does not make it right. [...] Shoplifting is common. It's still illegal.

Again, I didn't say it was right. I'm saying you should be wary for it. Same reason shops have security cams even though shoplifting is "not right".

[Wet Trousers]

You did not understand what I meant. He's jailed for rape, but it wasn't said that they were lying about their birth sex.".

That was said in the newspaper report that I read.

Rape is a term used for a physical sexual act (such as penetration) on someone else. This type of "con" over the internet should therefore not be considered rape. It is, however, a form of sexual abuse.

Sorry, my lack of clarity here. I separated the two but mentioned them in the same sentence. That's my view also and what I was saying (or trying to say).

I think we're now in agreement!

And I also agree that, just because it is wrong (or, in some cases, abuse), it won't stop people lying on the Internet. You do have to be wary... as Peevert now is as well.

[Adrian6970]

Well I'm a middle aged man and always straightforward about that online. I don't see any point in deceiving others and oneself by pretending to be anything else. Like a lot od people here I limit the amount of information I post about myself online (at least viewable information) because I have a busy offline life too which I don't want to complicate.

[kochel428]

Well, this isn't a useful conversation. Mods?

[Patches]

Well, this isn't a useful conversation. Mods?

kochel428, this is a respectful ongoing discussion so I don't see any problem with it. While it is off topic from the original subject of this thread, the thoughts expressed are still relevant to many of the members in this forum.

[Dusty Harold]

I would like to mention. That over the years i have given feed back , suggestions & comments . pertaining to what i had enjoyed in seeing / viewing of videos . made by Patches place , I Need 2 Pee & H.D.WETTING , Wet Set websites and their webmasters . That ran those sites for several years now . in filming newer videos . For those of us all . Who enjoyed in watching them
As I will always try to gie them my suppoert for making newer more interesting videos. That can be then ordered and enjoyed being watched by those of us . Who like that form of film work and the models used to film the videos made by these producers .
That if no one gives them any new information nor feed back . On what the customer would enjoy seeing. Then there's no reason to continue making any newer videos. Which I do find most disappointing. As it would men . That those websites might some day be gone. That I would not like that at all. because of the type of videos they were good at making . That i do enjoy in ordering and would like to see more of . So I will try to support them ...........

Dusty Harold

[Narada]

I'm done with this topic.

It's like talking to a brick wall.

[AquaVitae]

You did a bad job of being done with this topic if you had to respond to a nearly 3 week old post.

[Peevert]

One thing I should mention is that it's not only guys that are injured by the fake girls. I've had real girls tell me that they were disgusted to learn that the "girls" that they just shared intimate secrets with were really guys. Is THAT okay too? Is it alright that an entire online community of real women are being tricked into talking to a fake women?

The transgendered know no limits when it comes to their disrespect for the rest of the online community. Because they've been shown no limits. The same thing happens in real life. A high school fake girl wants permission to use the girl's bathroom. AND GETS IT. And the entire school of real girls has to put up with a boy in the bathroom. It's disgraceful. And yes, this really has happened in the U.S.

I just tried to sign in to WW to see if anything had changed, and I got the message "Continuous harassment of tg members in the chat room." And, barring a change in policy, that's the message that I should always get. Because I refuse to pretend that "girls" with cocks are girls. For those of you guys that want to go in there and fall in love with girls with cocks, be my guest. For those of you females that want to go in there and bare your souls to girls with cocks, again, be my guest.

I should point out I have no issues with gays and lesbians. There's no dishonesty in what they do. But much of the TG/TS community, both on line and in real life, seems based on deception and lies. I'd like to think I have a billion dollar bank account and a 12" cock that can have ten multiple orgasms every hour. But I don't expect people to get banned from a chat room, or expelled from school, or fired from a job, if they don't believe it. That's the difference in me and a TG/TS. I am tolerant of people with different beliefs. Some of the transgendered are among the most intolerant people I have ever met.

[Drying]

I'm done with this topic.

It's like talking to a brick wall.

Seconded.

I think there is no more we can get out of a discussion here.

Maybe some people can look up some information about the gender spectrum (and how gender differs from sex) and become a little more open to understanding what some people have to deal with before judging them.

But let's just stop this here, because it's gone from off-topic to downright offensive.

[Narada]

One thing I should mention is that it's not only guys that are injured by the fake girls. I've had real girls tell me that they were disgusted to learn that the "girls" that they just shared intimate secrets with were really guys. Is THAT okay too? Is it alright that an entire online community of real women are being tricked into talking to a fake women?

The transgendered know no limits when it comes to their disrespect for the rest of the online community. Because they've been shown no limits. The same thing happens in real life. A high school fake girl wants permission to use the girl's bathroom. AND GETS IT. And the entire school of real girls has to put up with a boy in the bathroom. It's disgraceful. And yes, this really has happened in the U.S.

I just tried to sign in to WW to see if anything had changed, and I got the message "Continuous harassment of tg members in the chat room." And, barring a change in policy, that's the message that I should always get. Because I refuse to pretend that "girls" with cocks are girls. For those of you guys that want to go in there and fall in love with girls with cocks, be my guest. For those of you females that want to go in there and bare your souls to girls with cocks, again, be my guest.

I should point out I have no issues with gays and lesbians. There's no dishonesty in what they do. But much of the TG/TS community, both on line and in real life, seems based on deception and lies. I'd like to think I have a billion dollar bank account and a 12" cock that can have ten multiple orgasms every hour. But I don't expect people to get banned from a chat room, or expelled from school, or fired from a job, if they don't believe it. That's the difference in me and a TG/TS. I am tolerant of people with different beliefs. Some of the transgendered are among the most intolerant people I have ever met.

OMG do you even hear yourself????

Transgender women aren't guys pretending to be women. They ARE women. They have a condition called gender dysphoria that causes them to feel that they aren't the gender they were born into. This is a real medical condition. They don't just wake up one day and decide to be women, this us something that's been with them all their lives.

You don't have a problem with the LBGTQIA community? The hafeful language you're using proves otherwise. I'm so sorry that some trans girls "lied" to you: they probably thought that who they were mattered more than what was between their legs. Crazy, right?

Don't bother replying, I won't be discussing this further. Just do some fucking research and stop referring to trans girls as fake.

[Peevert]

Transgender women aren't guys pretending to be women. They ARE women.

This ain't rocket science. They have cocks. Whether those cocks are in their natural position or are twisted inside out, they still have cocks. They're men. With male hormones and male chromosomes. They're men. Simple as that. That's not hateful. That's truth.

I'm so sorry that some trans girls "lied" to you

No trans girls ever lied to me. Trans boys lied to me.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

In closing, I see that the thread is going to get closed, because someone saw it as hateful, even though it never was. It's not hate, it's fact.

I believe that Wetting Wonderland will never survive as a chat room as long as any minority, whether it's TG/TS, or Adult Babies (who can be just as irrational and demanding) or whoever, are allowed to run it. All that's needed to keep order in a chat room is an ignore button. The moment anything else (such as hall monitors) are used, the chat room ceases to function as a chat room for adults.

Nikki, I appreciate what you've tried to do with Wetting Wonderland, and I really wish it would succeed, but I don't think that's possible, for the same reasons I gave you years ago, and repeated above. I personally have a great deal of respect for you, so despite my difference of opinion, I wish you well with it. I will now wish everyone Happy Holidays and STFU.