Crinoline Dress and peeing; (= desperation?)

[Paul Tester]

Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGzYySi02bI
Hopefully I have got it right. It is from Youtube, called "Putting on a Crinoline Dress"
The first thought is; how on earth is the woman going to be able to pee? Note that she is not wearing split crotch drawers, as she might have done in period, but even with these, how did she pee? She would be going to a formal event, most likely with wine and champagne to drink, and lasting a long time. The only way I can imagine her peeing is to simply let go 'down her legs' when the need becomes to great to resist. if she could stand where the flood down her legs, or subsequent drips do not show, she might get away with it, but the smell?, and the discomfort of soaking wet drawers clinging to her legs?
Was it normal for ladies to hang on in desperation until they could retire to a private room where a maid would help her lift her dress, pull down her drawers, and hold a chamber pot between her legs to receive the flood she was holding back?
I have heard it said the ladies going to formal events would drink nothing for 1 or 2 days before, so they would not need to pee. Could be true if this is what they wore.

[Vic]

The answer is simple & obvious.
In reality, there were NO undergarments (how could anyone know otherwise?).
This resulted in the origin of the "curtsey", the female analog to men taking a bow!
Later!- Vic

[Paul Tester]

I agree; in reality the Victorian ladies did not wear 'drawers' There is much evidence of this, not including this vid. Drawers were considered sinful, as they too much resembled male underwear, and the Bible forbade 'women to wear the garments of men.' Victorian Ladies underwear was layers of underskirts which kept their elaborate outer skirts away from 'body dirt.' This, I think, is a polite way of saying that the under-skirts kept the outer clothes dry when the lady pissed herself, as she surely had to, given that there were no public facilities for her to use when away from home.
Wearing a crinoline, even with no drawers, she would have found it difficult to lift the skirts enough to put the chamber pot between her legs and pee: far easier to pee down her legs. This was why, at balls and other formal events, it was common for ladies to walk into the garden to get fresh air. Walking across the grass she could pee without leaving a visible puddle or trail of drips.
Sitting through long formal dinners or church services, she might have ben able to get the chamber pot between her legs to pee. Her maid would have to take the pot away and empty it. Since all the ladies had to do this it would not have been unusual.
Google on such subjects as 'coach pot' or 'everreadies' to see what she used, the imagine the desperation that young ladies had to suffer.

[Vic]

Actually, I was making a joke, based upon the physical movement of a curtsey.

[SteveLamonte]

Weird, the poster of that video actually answered that in a comment, posting links to pictures of a "bordaloue" including a painting of how one used them. One of those leads to this link:

http://twonerdyhistorygirls.blogspot...ourdaloue.html

[Patches]

For those who need a visual of a chamber pot in use.

[DeltaFoxtrot]

In older times women did not wear traditional "underwear" as we know it today and females urinating in public was quite common, so common in fact that the French govt. actually had to pass a law requiring females to wear undergarments whenever they left the house... a law which is still on the books today.

[Paul Tester]

If cartons of the period are to be believed, women, or even Ladies, had could pee in one of three ways. "Normal" way, when away from home and not surrounded by other people, was to raise the front of her skirts and stand upright, legs apart, pelvis thrust forward, and let go a stream of piss. When relieved, probably did not bother to wipe, just let her skirts drop back into place and walked away. From what can be seen on the cartoons, female was not wearing drawers or knickers, only several underskirts. This could be done with either the normal long dresses or a crinoline. Lower classes, (women,) would always use this method when outside. I believe there was an act of parliament to stop women working in the fields so exposing themselves. Upper class Lady in crinoline could pee like this in her private gardens.
Indoors, where only Ladies would have a WC she would back towards the WC with the crinoline tilted forwards so her bum was exposed, and then sit on WC and piss.
Lower classes did not have the luxury of indoor WC so women, not rich enough tower elaborate dresses, simply raised her skirts and either squatted and pissed on the ground, or sat on the wooded seat of the earth closet. Not unusual for lower classes to live in such squalor that they would pee on the floor.
In her carriage Lady would have a chamber pot, or the more specialised coach pot, to piss into and them empty the contents out of the window. In her home, she had servants to empty and clean her chamber pot.
In crowded streets, both would piss down their legs. Any smell of piss would be hidden by the general bad smells of rubbish, horse dung, etc.
if none of the above were possible, she had to wait, for as long as she had to. A common euphemism for wanting to piss was 'suffering from stomach pains,' perhaps showing how badly she might want to go.
Happy Days!

[Ridcully]

I love it when an old thread pops back into life! Especially when it's one I missed first time around!..

Many years ago, when I was but a young impressionable youth, I took part in a Theatre production of Charles Dickens' "Nicholas Nickleby" a play set in Victorian England as I'm sure you would have guessed!

This particular play is 8 hours long, split over two performances 4 hours each.. (Look it up..it's a monster!) and it was performed in full, authentic costume. It was also the hight of summer when we were performing, and I well remember sweating buckets in a stiff collar, and heavy 3 piece suit, whilst running around the various entrances & exits of the theatre. The only way to keep going was to take on board a lot of liquids.

On one night, I was waiting back stage for my entrance to a scene, when I saw one of the female members of the cast, in full crinoline dress costume, dashing down the corridor towards the toilets. I was 18 and had just left school, she was in her 30's and was one of my ex teachers who by coincidence was in the play. I stood and tried not to look like I was watching too closely, while she and another female cast member struggled to get her out of the costume in the corridor outside the toilet. She had just got the dress unbuttoned at the back, and had let the dress drop to the floor so she could step out of it, when with a gasp of defeat, I saw her now exposed underwear go a darker colour, and then the pee flooded down her legs onto the floor. I was mesmerised by all this, but sadly, my entrance cue came just seconds later, and I had to leave the wings and go on stage, desperately trying to put the sight out of my mind and remember all my lines!

By the end of the run, I had heard about two other women in the cast who had been caught out by the time it took to get out of the crinaline dresses and remove their modern underwear beneath..sadly I didn't witness either of these events though!... :-(

[Dusty Harold]

For those who need a visual of a chamber pot in use.

Patches ,
I have always being interested / intrigued about women using a chamberpot. As it seems to really arouse me in knowing how they might pee into it . Either standing overit / that of peeing into while squatting over it.
Both really has my imagination going somewhat wild . In picturing such an event. As i see it as a very unique way to pee
Appreciate that link
That of have you ever used a chamber pot before / does one of your Patches video have one in it . That the girl[s] , had used ?

Dusty Harold

[Paul Tester]

Thinking about the topic after I posted my last reply, it seems to me that the Crinoline dress was designed to allow ladies to piss themselves in public without anyone knowing. With no drawers on underneath, her piss could be release onto the ground and nothing show on her skirts if she could not piss straight down, the sound muffled by the layers of skirts, and her dress held just above the puddle she left. So long as the lady could stand somewhere the puddle would not notice, perfect! Is this why so many ladies went for walks in the garden to 'get some fresh air' during balls and other big social events?