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**Anything4mybabe** · April 27, 2012, 12:06 AM

In the last clip are you talking about the blue thing in her panties? If you are its not a hose but a remote vibrator thats connected to the blue box on the waist band of her panties.

**DeltaFoxtrot** · April 27, 2012, 11:45 AM

The old Patches movies are pretty cool... it's nice to see people have uploaded them b/c you can't purchase them anymore.

**kegel** · April 27, 2012, 01:47 PM

Custom Underpants

Regarding "http://www.hotgoo.com/watch/57179".
(Girl peeing her pants on her classroom desk seat)

Always wondered about those underpants.
Looks like the crotch is waterproof and the pee collects until it spills
over the top.

**Patches** · April 27, 2012, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by DeltaFoxtrot

The old Patches movies are pretty cool... it's nice to see people have uploaded them b/c you can't purchase them anymore.

DeltaFoxtrot, you are wrong! Patches 19 is available to purchase as a download and someone downloaded it and then uploaded it for others to get it for free! This is not only a copyright violation but it is a practice that over time puts video producers out of business. Sure, I have made my money back on what is cost to produce Patches 19 but I am not making my money back on some of the more recent Patches videos and consequently Patches 56 will be the last Patches video for a long time.

Other video producers have stopped releasing new videos and some I have talked with are close to stopping all new video releases. Piracy affects all of us and it is a cancer which eats away at our ability to release new material. I wish it were possible to make video scenes and just give them away as a generous act for the benefit of the watersports community but the reality is that we need to make enough money to cover our expenses.

I have heard the argument that we should charge less for our videos and this would reduce the temptation to pirate them. The problem with that argument is that watersports is a small niche in adult porn and does not have the sales volume of other adult themes. Most of us cannot afford to charge less and hope to cover our expenses.

Please don't hate me! I am not attacking anyone. I am just trying to give my perspective on what is hurting the production of material that we all love.

**toiletcontroller** · April 27, 2012, 07:18 PM

Patches, I completely understand your argument, unfortunately it is so easy these days for even new material to be copied and distributed for all to see, no wonder many companies have stopped producing such material.

**Apemantus** · April 28, 2012, 12:09 AM

Originally posted by Patches

Most of us cannot afford to charge less and hope to cover our expenses.

Admittedly, I prefer genuine amateur stuff, so my response is biased, but as amateurs who are into this can film something decent on their phone and upload it, I am personally not clear what your expenses are?

There seems to be a market for professionally made videos of cardboard models, which I appreciate the piracy industry is destroying, but unfortunately, I would personally prefer less of that stuff and more genuine amateur stuff. In a similar way to record labels stifling creativity by appealing to a marketplace, the problem I can see you have is that singers, songwriters, bands etc., can create from love, not money, then they can make a living by doing concerts. That is what happens with dance music DJs, the money is in the live aspect.

I can see how it is not an easy place for pro video producers of porn like this, but I can't sympathise as so much of it is crap (not so much the case with Patches) and it has been overpriced for so long.

As for covering costs - the cheaper you make it, the more you will sell. Once you have made a film, especially if it is downloadable, then each sale gets you closer to profit, so make it dirt cheap. I would consider paying �1 or 2 but nothing more and I suspect many like me?

**Razz** · April 28, 2012, 12:34 AM

I have heard the argument that we should charge less for our videos and this would reduce the temptation to pirate them.

There's also the argument that the vast majority of people watching the pirated content would never go through the legitimate channel of paying for the original content if it they couldn't download/view the pirated version.

IMO there's so much free amateur tube style content out there that of course demand for the "professional" content is down. Personally I wouldn't watch the Patches catalog if it was all available for free.

I'm not trying to sound harsh either. I bought VHS from Patches back in the day and I thought it was the greatest thing ever. Patches Place & Thomas's site blew my mind when I first logged onto the www. Times have changed.

**toiletcontroller** · April 28, 2012, 12:52 AM

The idea of taking the same line as the music industry and doing a live wetting tour certainly appeals to me...

**NiceSmile** · April 28, 2012, 03:20 AM

Originally posted by toiletcontroller

The idea of taking the same line as the music industry and doing a live wetting tour certainly appeals to me...

This site needs a "like" button

**moosehead68** · April 28, 2012, 07:28 AM

Both sides have points here. I bought patches 19 many years ago on vhs. It is fantastic, by the way. Over the years I have purchased several more tapes from patches, but circumstances have changed for many of us. I can no longer afford to pay $50. for a video...it is simply out of the question. Even back in the day, I would have liked to have bought many more of the patches collection, but the price was prohibitive. So yes, lower prices would equal more sales. On the other hand, what Patches claims is right too. There aren't that many people who are into our fetish. There has to be a balance here somewhere. My two cents...

**DeltaFoxtrot** · April 28, 2012, 09:50 AM

Oh don't start with the "online piracy" debate again. As long as people have been selling products there have been pirates. Everyone is just pissed about the whole online thing because every time they come up with a way to reduce piracy the "pirates" find some way to circumvent it.

Welcome to the internet folks... a global community built on innovation. The industry is never going to win the fight against "pirates"... their only hope to fight them is to lower their prices so people are more likely to purchase legitimate vids instead of spending hours surfing websites such as this to find links to "pirated" material.

Patches, I do like your stuff, but $30 for a vid that was produced 15 years ago is a bit of a stretch.

**Halflife77** · April 28, 2012, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by Patches

DeltaFoxtrot, you are wrong! Patches 19 is available to purchase as a download and someone downloaded it and then uploaded it for others to get it for free! This is not only a copyright violation but it is a practice that over time puts video producers out of business. Sure, I have made my money back on what is cost to produce Patches 19 but I am not making my money back on some of the more recent Patches videos and consequently Patches 56 will be the last Patches video for a long time.

Other video producers have stopped releasing new videos and some I have talked with are close to stopping all new video releases. Piracy affects all of us and it is a cancer which eats away at our ability to release new material. I wish it were possible to make video scenes and just give them away as a generous act for the benefit of the watersports community but the reality is that we need to make enough money to cover our expenses.

I have heard the argument that we should charge less for our videos and this would reduce the temptation to pirate them. The problem with that argument is that watersports is a small niche in adult porn and does not have the sales volume of other adult themes. Most of us cannot afford to charge less and hope to cover our expenses.

Please don't hate me! I am not attacking anyone. I am just trying to give my perspective on what is hurting the production of material that we all love.

I figured I'd weigh in here with my 2 cents...I'm very sorry to hear your unlikely to be continuing the Patches series after 56. I've always had a little soft spot for the Patches series as it was my discovery of that video series that made me feel not so alone in my fetish. I've noticed the rise in piracy - especially in our "niche fetish", as you put it - considering there are several communities dedicated to pirating the various media. Admittedly, there is a good chunk of us that have seen/visited these sites and seen copyrighted material. I have purchased a few videos from the Patches series and admittedly have seen clips/large chunks of more recent Patches videos on some of the aforementioned sites. Having seen those clips, I can say more of the recent entries don't appeal to me - I hope that you won't take offense to that, just not my cup of tea.

I know one can't exactly keep reinventing the wheel, but I feel like the quality of the wetting videos as of late have fallen. I'm not talking about the up scaling to HD quality, as that certainly is a good thing, more so the fact I just don't find myself that interested/aroused. It's one thing to see a woman desperate to pee and then either by accident or of her own accord release into her clothing but the obnoxious OMG's to the juvenile giggling really kills it for me. I'm not trying to insult anyone here who may be into that or producing videos that contain that, as I am thankful there are still people out there willing to produce videos of such activities yet it just doesn't appeal to me.

The last thing is the models...they span in a huge variety of attractiveness (at least to me) and that certainly is a huge turn off at times. I'm not going to purchase a video with a bunch of scenes with a model I do not find attractive nor am I going to pay for solitary clips of a model I find appealing claiming to be so desperate yet then proceeds to just dribble in her undies (don't get me wrong, I know some are camera shy and it is kind of a taboo thing to do). I won't buy a membership to a site either if the influx of new content ranges so drastically in terms of what I find appealing.

I've gone to the individual clips route of picking and choosing what I like yet I find myself at times being deceived by an appalling preview clip or photos that make the scene look better than it actually is. I try to support the mode indie producers/amateurs yet I have no qualms opening my pocket book for the larger producers when they create something I do like.

I know one cannot please everyone when they produce a video and please don't think I'm demanding that anyone produce clips of my taste...I'm just adding what I think. I don't even demand to see a face (while that certainly adds some attractiveness to it, it's not everything to me) as I realize some people would like to retain some of their anonymity, all I ask is to see proof that clip I'm watching is of a female - I have nothing against transgenders but they do not arouse me so I'd prefer to watch actual females. I'd even wager we were spoiled a degree with the influx of amateur clips that have fallen in recent times that what we once got for free, is now something we have to pay for. But hey, I'll gladly pay for a full clip as long as I have something that isn't just an .flv or lower quality .mp4.

To those producers out there...I do thank you for sticking with it. As many here know, it's not always easy finding someone with which to share this part of our sexuality so it's always nice to have something to turn to, ha!

**Patches** · April 28, 2012, 12:58 PM

I certainly appreciate the comments I have read in this thread so far. Everyone has been respectful without any personal attacks. Opinions have been stated clearly and articulately.

I want to comment on a couple of things that have been said. Several people have cited the amount of free amateur content that is available on the various tubes. Personally, I believe that this factor has cut into the sales of the various video producers. I understand the appeal of a "reality TV" clip where someone pulls out their smartphone and records video of one of their friends having an accident or records the results of a girl responding to a challenge or a dare. The production quality may be low with a shaky picture and lots of giggling but the authenticity of a real life drama as it unfolds can't be duplicated with paid models and scenes that are set up in advance. I have a friend who lives locally and who used to buy my videos but he no longer buys them because he enjoys the free amateur clips that he can easily find on the tubes. He finds the authentic incidents more appealing than the scripted wetting activities. This is the new reality and all of us who are video producers need to deal with it and get used to it.

The other thing I want to comment on is the desire expressed by a couple of people for a "live show." I don't know how many of you will remember this but back in the late 1990's, we attempted to set up a live show which would be free and the girls agreed to be there and put on a show just for tips. There was no cost except for the cost of getting to the event which was going to be held in the Dallas area. We did ask people to "register" their intention to come so we would know how large a space we would need to host everyone. The end result was that it never happened! Very few people wanted to come to a location even with others who had the same fetish and watch girls pee. The feedback we got was that fans wanted to watch their videos in private and not be seen by others as having an interest in watersports.

Some of you may also remember that someone in the UK who worked in the travel industry tried to set up a week of watersports activities in a private section of one of the Hedonism vacation resorts in Jamaica. A minimum number of people would be needed to hold this event and there was an open registration period. Not enough people signed up and the event was cancelled.

So, you may think that a live show would be appealing to many who enjoy watersports but the reality is that very few people who enjoy this fetish want to be publicly identified with it by attending any live events!

**quietpr11** · April 29, 2012, 05:46 AM

There's another explanation

Actually...a few others.

a) Women won't show up to such things because they will fear for their security...a bunch of fetishized men who know that you like the same thing they do and who are being made super-horny by the content of the show? Yeah...there's a reason women would tend to fear that scenario. Not saying all men would behave like animals or anything...far from it. Just saying...that's very intimidating for women.

b) Straight men don't really like to get horny with other strange men. Yes...I know that strip clubs exist...but there are levels of arousal. It's...awkward...for many men to be in the same setting and in close quarters with a bunch of other guys who are turned on. And it's not like you'd feel comfortable jacking it to the show with a bunch of other guys. That's...weird.

Sorry...human nature to find such a thing a little disturbing. So if you can't do anything about the arousal...it loses some of its appeal.

c) Anonymity doesn't just free us to be jerks on the web (LOL)...it also allows for people to fully explore their fantasies without fear of reprisal. Once you are in a room with a bunch of other fetishists...even if they like the same thing you do...you aren't anonymous and you open yourself to the possibility of being rejected/disliked...or liked in a way you don't want.

d) Fantasy has an allure that frequently reality cannot match. It's a lot more fun for some to imagine what COULD happen than to see it reduced to mere reality (which rarely matches the fantasy in epic terms).

In short...we all want to belong and feel like our interests are part of something big...but when it comes to sex...everyone is unique in some way and no one can really "belong" to a sexual community...it's something meant to be shared with one other person in whom you have the utmost trust...not treated like a mosh pit at a concert.

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